@jactac Using the E-save option.
@Andrew_PL - that’s alot, I add about 160kW per month, but my mileage is much less.
260kWh gives about 810 miles. 3,1M/1kWh
@Andrew_PL that’s good, last year I got around 2.88m/kW in electric only.
Returning to the 12V battery under the bonnet. Outside temperature -11°C, 2 hours after ignition off. This one hasn’t been serviced for 6 months, only charging while driving and from the wallbox
Im not a weather man and certainly no mechanic but -11°C is well below freezing so those figures are very good.
I’ll check mine later its about 8°C here today.
Yes, 7.7 mOHM is a very good result for a 3-year-old battery
So my car is currently at the dealership to have two more handles changed, that will be the third handle in 12 month.
Just had a call telling me they’ve found that the smaller 12v battery has yet again also failed.
So that will be the 2nd smaller battery in 12 months and its already had 3 of the larger batteries changed within the 12 months.
I’ve also worked outed out what DS actually stands for.
DIABOLICAL SHIT
At the moment my DS4 won’t run on electric power, I took it into Stellantis Romford who told me the auxiliary battery was fine and to get over the problem run the engine in sports mode for 20 mins, All worked well for two days and then the problem started again, ran the sport mode for about 50 mile and still can’t use the electric mode. They said the battery is not covered under the warranty as the car is now 28 months old. If the battery is the problem then I will change it but they say it is 75% efficient. Any thoughts fellow DS owners?
Both the 12v batteries on my DS4 have been a total nightmare.
However I’ve not had it refuse to run in full electric.
It has selected to run with the ICE even though theres full charge, buts that if its in hybrid mode, if I change to electric mode it does run fine in that mode, in fact when i start the car it automatically switches on in electric mode.
@AndyG - after I got my used 2022 DS4 E-Tense, my first trip was a 200mile trip to get the car home (i.e. fully on petrol). The car was fine for a couple of weeks running on a mix of elec-only and hybrid, then I got the warning about Elec mode being Unavailable. I charged it (traction battery) up a couple of times, drove it in petrol only etc, but fault was still there after a couple of weeks i.e. 4-5 short-ish journeys for me, I booked into dealer for investigation. However, after a further 2-3 weeks / 4-5 short journeys, the error disappeared, without me doing any charging / swapping of 12V batteries - and I could run on elec only just fine. I haven’t seen the fault since - and I run on a mix of elec-only and hybrid (probably 50:50). Just mentioning as the pattern I observed seemed counterintuitive to be just a 12V battery that wasn’t charged or holding charge. I expect there was something subtle going on with how both 12V batteries are charged - and it took time for my typical usage to get things good after a long time sitting on a garage forecourt.
Andyc does hit on a good point.
The very first day I collected my DS4 it said Electric mode unavailable.
The dealership had charged the traction battery to max but this message still appeared.
However after a few days of driving around showing off the new wheels, the message disappeared.
I think the issues was more to do with the car having been in storage for many months before being sold, and the 12v batteries had depleted.
It seems as though a depleted 12v battery has a negative effect on letting the car run fully on the traction battery, so it send out the Electric Mode unavailable message until the 12v batteries have had a bit of a boost.
My car only gets used 4 days a week for an average of 50 miles in total, I think this is having a negative effect on the 12v batteries in my car.
Most journeys I do the ICE hasnt even kicked by the time I’ve reached my destination, so I go from home to work and then back again with the radio, heaters, wipers ect running but nothings putting this charge back into the 12v battery.
I do this 4 times a week, then the car sits for 3 days, and the process starts all over again.
I think when we charge the traction battery the larger 12v battery also receives some charge, but I’m not sure if the smaller 12v receives any ?
The car is at the dealership as we speak for two new handles and yet another smaller 12v battery, but when it comes back I’m going to get into a routine of manually charging both 12v batteries monthly.
Personally I think a depleted 12v battery do mess things up, especially if its the smaller one, and in turn we get these Electric Mode Not Available messages.
@Jactac , @andyc , @AndyG
Not a DS, but virtually the same Stellantis Hybrid system, what Jay says is about cars being idle and sitting on dealership forcourts, or importers carparks is probably right.
I’ve had mine for 18+ months, before me the dealership parts manager had it, between him and me was about a month (April), so basicallyit never really sat idle.
I don’t remember ever seeing the “Electric Mode Unavailable” with a full traction battery. Yes, the ICE has started and run for a while, but I think that is to recharge the smaller batteries (both).
I don’t have a typical usage, but, I plug-in as often as I can, if i arrive home with less than 70%(ish) it gets plugged in. I don’t care that it sits in my garage at 100% for a few days after charging. I do at least one trip a month that will take the traction battery down to 0%. I also use a battery minder once a month to keep the 12v underbonet battery topped up. But, I think what @Andrew_PL says may have some validity, only time will tell, I’ve had a couple of “Charge interupted” so it’s not fully charged, I think once the battery minder has done its job a brought the underbonet battery back to 100%, it stops the on board charger. So, in future I will only connect the minder if the car is not plugged in.
Currently the GOM range is showing 19 miles, but earlier this week I drove 26 (13 x 2) miles and still had 2% before plugging it in!. Following that 26 mile trip the following day after overnight charging, the GOM range at 100% was 21 miles, now after a few shorter trips its back to 19 miles.
Yeah I know 100% that my car was sitting in a stock compound for at least 6 months, just being moved around from one spot to another within the compound, before it was offered to me.
My son has the Vauxhall Astra PHEV, which he was using a lot through the week, but over the last 6 months he hasnt done as much mileage or usage, so he’s now finding the ICE kicking in far more frequently.
Currently on a full charge my predicated mileage is 24 miles @ 100%.
The one thing I might be doing wrong is charging the car to max 100% and then running it to 0% before charging again !
I only charge the traction battery twice per week, and thats only once its dropped to 0%.
Could this be an issue ?
I still find all this charging or not charging thing a bit confusing if I’m honest.
In my eyes it works like this, but I might be wrong, probably definitely wrong 
- Traction battery = from wall charger, regen braking
- Main 12v = from ICE , possibly from wall charger when traction battery is being charged
- Small 12v = Not a clue, perhaps a sprinkling of fairy dust
:
This isn’t a problem, because 0% on the meter doesn’t match 0% of the traction battery. If you see 0%, the traction battery still has 10-15% of its charge.
12.44kWh is the entire capacity of the traction battery and the maximum that can be charged is approximately 11kWh.
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Phew,
Thought I might be doing damage 
So just been to collect a courtesy car from the dealers as my car will be there for a few days.
I had a good chat with the DS Master Technician about the battery issues my car has had.
Heres his take on it.
“Theres absolutely nothing wrong with your car in regards to how the battery is charged, there is however an issue with the battery health (SOH), on the main 12v battery”.
First thing I noticed was he said BATTERY NOT BATTERIES.
So I pressed him further.
"Basically PSA 12v batteries that go into UK cars are crap, they deplete quicker than a more decent battery, which effects the SOH, the SOC is ok but the SOH is not, which basically means the health of the battery isnt good even if you charge it, but also it’s well know amongst UK DS service departments that theres been a poor batch of the 12v main batteries in circulation for many many months, this poor batch has almost certainly come to and end because of the amount of battery replacements that have been taking place, therefor battery replacements now should start to dwindle as fresh batches have become available, DS UK know about this problem but have refused to issue a call back, they’ve just dealt with it by using up the crap batch’s until theres nothing left, it’s a problem with UK Vauxhall & UK Peugeot cars as well ".
(This dealership covers DS, Vauxhall, Peugeot, all PSA cars)
So I then asked about how both batteries get their charge, it was at this point though, as he started to explain the process that my head started to spin and it felt like he was talking a totally different language 
So to cut it short because I cant explain it how he explained it:
The smaller battery is classed as a serviceable item and is usually tested during routine servicing.
It DOES NOT receive a charge like the main 12v battery, however the amount of draw that is taken from it means it should last around 3 years.
He then said, one of the first signs that your 12v battery needs a charge is the ICE starting up even if the car is being driven by the traction battery, it is normal for it to run at 1400rpm and then drop to 800rpm, with the traction battery driving the car in the background..
The more you see this the more the SOH is depleting on the 12v main battery .
Its also normal to see the ICE do the same thing if you turn on the heaters because this is using more draw from the 12v main battery.
Charging the traction battery also puts charge into the main 12v battery, and so does the ICE, however if the SOH on the main 12v battery is poor no amount of charging will bring it back to a survivable state, the SOH will keep dwindling lower.
SOH on my main 12v was 53% , SOC was 98%
So from what he’s told me all the issues I’ve been having is down to a dodgy batch of 12v main batteries, so they’ve ordered another 12v main battery for my car, hopefully its from the “good batch”, oh and 3 more handles, again I hope they are from a decent batch !
He did say short journeys havent helped matters either.
I asked about trickle charging both the main 12v and the smaller 12.
He wouldn’t recommend the smaller battery be charged as they are designed to only last 3 years ish so charging might cause issues, (he didnt go into details), the larger one is ok, but not when the traction battery is being charged.
I now need re-charging after all that.
Wheres my Gin & Tonic
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So why are my parameters so good? Because I charge the traction battery every day? I preserves the main 12V battery maybe once at six months. My average daily mileage is only 30-35km/20m.
He did say charging the traction battery puts charge into the main 12v battery at the same time but not the smaller one.
I dont charge the traction battery every day, probably twice a week at the very most, so combine that with low mileage and usage the main 12v battery isnt really getting enough charge.
Even if the ICE kicks in on my car it’s probably just for a few minutes whilst driving the short distances.
Your 20 mile journeys each day is double mine, and I only use the car for 4 days max.
Your usage is far better than mine, I’ll have to start maintaining the 12v more often and charge the traction battery more often I think ?
Also there may be some truth in the “bad batch” of batteries being used for the UK market ?
@Jactac , thanks for the update, and finally I think this thread is helping us all get to grasp of what charges what and when.
I’m a bit surprised that DS didn’t find a way to take the dodgy batteries out of their stock another way, other than fitting them to customers cars!
@Jactac you also have to remember that, cars used to have bigger batteries than they do now and didn’t have as many electrical systems requiring its power, so with all things equal they are still going to fail earlier. And as it’s known short trips kill batteries, especially in the winter.
As an example of old design ,we have had my wifes 2008 Corsa auto, for over 11 years and I’ve only replaced the battery once, and its still going strong, and it only does 100(ish) miles a month around town.
Thats good going for a Corsa.
Vauxhall in general are pretty well known for poor batteries.
I think the DS attitude was/is to gamble with some owners having to get a battery replaced under warranty against issuing a call back to have all batteries changed.
Another thing to mention is that even on a brand new car with a 3 year warranty, the batteries are only covered for 2 years, so DS were probably thinking the odds are in their favour for these dodgy batteries to last at least until the 2 year warranty had passed.
The Master Tech I spoke to said DS are fully aware of the situation so if a car like mine that is under warranty , but has an history from day one with the batteries they are pretty much obliged to cover batteries up the 3rd year.